Separation of Church and state
Islam was designed and built as a system of governance. (In addition to being a ‘religion’.) Islam was around long before the modern national government evolved and became common. In most of the Middle East, Islam has been the ‘law of the land' since the 8th century, yet modern governments were only established in the 20th century. As a result, loyalty to Islamic laws and culture is far more established than any government that has been put in place since. This is slowly changing, but the loyalty to the ‘Nation of Islam’ is still widespread. We still hear major Islamic leadership refer to the "Nation of Islam" and the "Sovereignty of the Islamic Nation" and declaring war upon the ‘occupiers of Muslim ‘Land’. The modern world has no place for a ‘religion’ that can declare war. The modern world cannot accept ANY ‘religion’ that can field it’s own armies to protect it’s own ‘land’ or ‘waters’ from ‘occupation’. Historically, national sovereignty issues of this type have required open warfare to resolve. These are not issues that people change their minds over easily, nor quickly. (If at all.) This is why war is required to settle the issue.
Islam has no separation of church and state. This concept is being fought violently and in an organized manner. The Islamic ‘army’ (Islamic terrorist groups) is fighting for the implementation of Islamic governance and ideology. Just look at how the terrorist groups get along with the ‘parent’ government of the area where they operate. Even they don’t get along very well because of the conflict over the national sovereignty issues that separation of church and state resolves. Historically, this is a very common reason for wars being fought.
In Iraq recently, an election was held. One person who was interviewed had said that his imam had told them to go vote, so he went. If the Imam had said to not vote, he would not have gone. The Imam has greater power than the government. An example: The Catholic Church is against abortion. However, the Church as NO power to overrule the law of the United States. As long as Catholics obey the law of the U.S., they can obtain abortions. All the church can do is attempt to persuade Catholics (And all others) to NOT obtain an abortion. We need to respect religious leaders, but Islamic leaders have far more power than the modern world can accept. Imams can enforce Islamic ‘law’. Imams can field their own armies. This must end, TODAY. People do not give up that kind of power by choice. Once again, historically it has been shown that it will take warfare to resolve. Reason number seven in my list of why Islam causes wars is the lack of separation of church and state.
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Interesting, I understand your POV of this present conflict but I respectfully disagree. For starters you are judging religon by those who follow it. As humans we are corrupt beings and yes there are those that misinterpret the teachings of their religon. If you are going to accuse the religon or Islam in this case, have enough sense to open it's holy scripture, the Qu'ran and see for yourself what the religon has to say on the matter of war. You just like the millions of others look at the small group of people that follow Islam who are disgracing the name of the religon. Yet the majority of muslims in the world are ready to convey our message with peace as it had from the start when it began. At the time when Islam flourished the church lagged behind in the middle ages, and Pope Urban II launching the crusades against Islam. If you research what happened during the time, what difference would you find from the term you take as 'Jihad' and 'Crusade'. Yes I do agree there are those that as of now are misusing humane rights to get a message across, but as a muslim I dont considered them my brothers. So the next time you try to blame Islam for the actions of corrupt individuals, research both sides before blogging biased opinions.
ReplyDeleteIf you will notice, war is foreign policy. Yes, the Koran specifies when war should be waged, when 'truces' should be implemented.
ReplyDeleteThe Koran also specifies many other funcitons of a modern national government. This has noting to do with judging 'religion'. This has everything to do with national governance. (Hence the reason of separation of church and state)
The individuals who believe in this 'government' are not corrupt. It is the 'government' that the Koran has set up that is corrupt. And these are not misinterpretations. These are parts of the Koran that you are not following or are ignoring. Please read the entire book.
P.S. By the way, the Crusades were a response to the constant warfare that was being waged upon the Roman empires southern and eastern flanks. (What was left of it)Much of the Eastern Roman Empire had already been overrun by Islam well before the Crusades began. The response failed, but it was indeed a reaction.
Indeed, the Koran and Islam are not separate from government because they explain how it should be implemented and practiced. Plus you are looking at nations that have weak governments and convict them of Islamic law. The Koran is a way of life that explains things beyond just mere religion. There have been many nations in the past that have ruled perfectly and those that failed to see the right way with the Laws of the Koran. Im not sure of which quotes you are talking about, please cite them other wise i have no clue what accusation you are making. Keep in mind the Koran is put in a very poetic form of Arabic which makes it easy for many people to misinterpret.
ReplyDelete-By the way, as the turks took over alot of the Byzantium Empire they also respected christians and jews living side by side without violence. Lets recall what happened during the first crusades to much of the innocent people that include christians when the crusaders came and ransacked the city slaughtering with "blood to their knees". Have you ever thought why Pope Urban II went rallying through so much of europe? Could it have been that he saw it as a chance to unite the church's of the east and west back together?? That would put much of his actions into political territory. Is this the seperation of church and state? Plus the person who launched the crusades in the first place was the Pope, who has control of knights?
The U.S. had a general (Sherman) who said "war is hell". I think everyone agrees.
ReplyDelete"There have been many nations in the past that have ruled perfectly and those that failed to see the right way with the Laws of the Koran."
Therein lies a major problem: What is the "right way"?
Arabic is similar to Chinese in that the inflection of the voice determines part of the meaning. This makes it difficult if not impossible to determine the exact meaning of the written words. Hence, the problems with 'interpretation'. So, who the hell knows what the 'right way' is to interpret the quotes? Scholars argue, people die in the meantime. Sorry, but I am not nearly as interested in the interpretations. I AM interested in the violence and warfare that is resulting from the many different versions.
That is in fact the point. I too am sick of this violence and hatred of war spread by misunderstanding.
ReplyDelete"I AM interested in the violence and warfare that is resulting from the many different versions."
-That is where you fail to look at the other side of the matter, which is the fact that there are black sheeps in every community but why are you ignoring the rest of the message and using modern extremists to prove your accusations. Keep in mind even though the Quranic language is hard to understand it is not impossible. The Hadith and the lives of the companions of the prophet can be used all as reference to seeing the actual translation. I went through some quotes from the Quran and various arguments over them but the key to keep in mind is of the time period in which the surah was released, the situation which it was directing at the time as well as cultural aspects.
"So, who the hell knows what the 'right way' is to interpret the quotes? Scholars argue, people die in the meantime. Sorry, but I am not nearly as interested in the interpretations."
-Your ignorance astounds me. If you aren't even willing to look at other interpretations this post is useless. You are just picking out the worst translations that are hardly believed in except by extremists while there are many scholars out there showing the actual meaning. That meaning which the majority of Muslims follow.
-By the way I'm in no way happy with the condition in the middle east as well. I wish for what is best for the whole world and neither extremists are helping nor is war.
Actually, I find these comments to be informative, in a number of ways. As you have stated, I am ignorant of much about Islam. I am not just picking out the worst translations. I am picking out the worst implementations of the translations. The very fact that so many translations can be made that trigger violence is a major problem that needs resolution.
ReplyDeleteWar is supposed to be decisive. Numerous issues exist that make warfare necessary and in fact, desirable. For example: Slavery. This issue was in fact, worth waging war over to resolve. A real crime exists when so many die and no permanent resolution results.
Correct, why such bad translations even coexist is an issue but that doesn't automatically label the whole religion as falsehood or warlike. That is what some humans take it as. Like you said "the mind sees what it wants to see".
ReplyDeleteWarfare is for that matter called for when no other solution is seen fit. You say as though the US is the only nation trying to solve this issue. There are many other Islamic nations trying to rid of these extremists with armed forces. It's not like we are just sitting around and letting bloodshed happen. The elimination of such a group is compulsary in order to once again show the true face of Islam. The US has been in the middle east for years now trying to fight of terrorism. What if there is another solution? As you know many groups are against the fact that the US continues to occupy the middle east. Why is that? There seems to be no more of a threat as it used to be during 9/11 so why are countless innocent lives of both sides lost everyday? Hopefully if we are out of the middle east the issue might settle down.